Post by Taxigirl on Nov 19, 2003 9:59:49 GMT
Ian Huntley told a friend he believed Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman were dead, three days after they went missing, the Old Bailey has heard.
Salesman Martin Mahoney said he commented on "the awful business" when he called on Mr Huntley on 7 August about some cleaning materials.
He said to Mr Huntley that police would probably find them, but the caretaker replied: "No they'll be dead."
Mr Huntley denies murdering the girls, who vanished from Soham in August 2002.
His former girlfriend Maxine Carr denies helping an offender and conspiring to pervert the course of justice.
The two schoolgirls went missing after a family barbecue at the Wells' home on 4 August. Their bodies were found 13 days later in a ditch near RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk.
Mr Mahoney, who sold cleaning products to the school and knew Mr Huntley as Ian Nixon, told the court he went to show him how to use some floor polishing materials.
They were discussing the missing girls as they walked towards Mr Huntley's house, when the caretaker first said he believed they were dead.
Mr Mahoney said he then told Mr Huntley: "I have got three daughters of my own and if one of my daughters went missing, you wouldn't give up after a couple of days."
He said Mr Huntley again replied: "No, they're dead", the court heard.
Under cross examination Stephen Coward QC, for Mr Huntley, suggested his client had said "as time goes on, you start fearing the worst, or words to that effect".
Mr Mahoney replied: "He didn't say that to me."
Alarm bells
Earlier the court heard how Mr Huntley told a hitch-hiker that he was one of the last people to see the girls alive.
Robert Jeynes, who was picked up by the couple just outside Grimsby, said a conversation about the missing girls had set off alarm bells for him.
He said Mr Huntley mentioned a woman who had been on TV the previous night and had "supposedly" seen the girls on the Monday.
Mr Jeynes told the court Mr Huntley said that before that woman, he was the last person to see the girls alive.
Mr Coward suggested Mr Jeynes was mistaken in thinking Mr Huntley had used the words "supposedly" and "alive".
Mr Jeynes replied he was not.
The hitch-hiker described Ms Carr's demeanour as "cold" with "no emotion", and Mr Huntley as "normal" during the 10 minutes he spent in the car.
Hangar search
The court then heard from a series of police officers involved in the search for the girls.
Sergeant Mark Barker, leading the search, told the court how, on 7 August, Mr Huntley had shown him round the school hangar but said he only had keys to one half of the building.
But the other side had been left unlocked so police were able to search the building, Sgt Barker told the court.
This was where the charred remains of the girls' clothes were found during a later search.
Mr Huntley denies murder
Mr Huntley told the officer the previous caretaker had been dismissed for a relationship with a student, and he believed this man may still have keys of the alarm code for the building, the court heard.
Sgt Barker also said Mr Huntley had told him he thought he was the last one to see the girls alive.
The officer told the court that during the search Mr Huntley asked "how long, how far, how detailed was the searching going to be".
DNA interest
Later the court heard how Mr Huntley had brought up the subject of DNA with a number of officers.
He asked Special Constable Michael Kerr what the police needed for DNA evidence, to which the officer replied "hair, skin cells or saliva".
Mr Kerr told the court he did not think it an unusual question as many people were interested in this subject.
Mr Huntley asked Special Constable Sharon Gilbert how long DNA could be used for.
She replied there was no timescale, the court heard.
Mr Huntley also told her he had seen the girls on the night they went missing and gave her a time which she believed was earlier than the one he gave when he later appeared on TV.
She said Mr Huntley had used the past tense when referring to the girls throughout the conversation.
"All the time in this conversation that was ringing alarm bells," she told the court.
The Soham trial is hearing its fifth day of witness evidence at the Old Bailey.
Police officers involved in the search for Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman are among those giving evidence.
Ian Huntley denies murdering the girls.
His former girlfriend Maxine Carr denies two charges of assisting an offender and one of conspiring to pervert the course of justice.
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The key details from witness statements on Day 10 are as follows:
Robert Jeynes was hitch-hiking from Grimsby on Tuesday 6 August, two days after the girls went missing, when he was picked up by Mr Huntley and Ms Carr who were driving back from Ms Carr's mother's house.
They started talking about the disappearance of the girls and Ms Carr told Mr Jeynes she used to be their classroom assistant.
Mr Huntley told Mr Jeynes that "apart from a woman on TV last night I was the last one to see them alive".
Mr Jeynes told the court Ms Carr seemed "very cold" with "no emotion there" but that Mr Huntley seemed "normal".
PC Gary Iddenten told the court Mr Huntley was helping him with a search of Soham Village College when, after an hour, officers were called back to the police station.
PC Iddenten said Mr Huntley "was surprised by the fact that we were leaving so quickly and asked why we were going back".
PC Iddenten was at the college the day after when Mr Huntley was with officers as they searched the site. PC Iddenten was called to watch a CCTV video that was "of interest".
After watching the video he again met Mr Huntley who asked him "anything interesting"?
Sgt Mark Barker was the team leader co-ordinating the search of the college. When he got an urgent message to return to Ely police station Mr Huntley asked "have they found them"? Sgt Barker did not reply.
The search continued the day after when Mr Huntley told Sgt Barker he did not have keys to the "PE side" of the college building, including the hangar.
He said the previous caretaker had been sacked because of a relationship with a student. He said he thought that man may still have keys and alarm codes for the "PE side".
Mr Huntley told Sgt Barker he thought he was the last one to see the girls alive. When asked if Ms Carr had seen the girls on the Sunday night, Mr Huntley replied "no, she was in the bath".
Special Constable Sarah Lee was on foot patrol near the school when Mr Huntley shouted out to her. She told the court the voice was "quite sharp and made me stop".
They had a conversation in which Mr Huntley asked if there was any news. Ms Lee said there was not. Mr Huntley told her he was the last person to see the girls alive.
In a statement read out to the court, family liaison officer Christopher Meade said he saw Mr Huntley talking to Holly's father Kevin Wells at a press conference at the college on Wednesday 7 August.
Mr Wells then approached Mr Meade saying Mr Huntley would like to change his statement. Mr Huntley had said to Mr Meade: "I now realise I got my timings wrong".
Martin Mahoney, who sold cleaning equipment to the school and knew Mr Huntley as Ian Nixon, told the court he had talked with Mr Huntley about the "terrible business" of the disappearance of the girls.
Mr Huntley told him he thought they would be dead.
Special Constable Michael Kerr told the court that on Wednesday 7 August Mr Huntley approached him and brought up the subject of DNA.
Mr Huntley asked: "What do the police need for DNA evidence?" Mr Kerr replied saying a hair, skin cells or saliva.
Special Constable Sharon Gilbert told the court she also had a conversation with Mr Huntley, for between 20 and 25 minutes. He complained the press were expecting bad news and said " the atmosphere was not right with the press".
Mr Huntley asked how long DNA could be used for. Ms Gilbert said there was no timescale.
Mr Huntley told Ms Gilbert he hoped the father of one of the girls would not be questioned as "his daughter loved him a lot". She said he referred to the girls using the past tense.
Ms Gilbert told the court that Mr Huntley said the previous caretaker had been sacked over something to do with a pupil. He said it was possible this man had spare keys and alarm codes for the college.
Richard Latham QC read out a statement from Teresa Russell who said she spotted Mr Huntley at Keyside Court - a complex of bungalows for the elderly - as she drove past at 8.30pm on Wednesday 7 August. The defence said there was no dispute it was Mr Huntley.
PC Timothy Cleary told the court he was patrolling near the college in the early hours of Thursday 8 August when he saw Mr Huntley waving a torch.
PC Cleary accepted an invitation into Mr Huntley's house for a cup of tea. He said Mr Huntley's kitchen was "very bright... very clean".